Rawk: But they don't get paid enough!
Rawk: I couldn't imaging sitting in a classroom with over 30 other kids trying to get them all to shut up now!
Jake: they get paid better than nursesRawk: They have a harder job than nurses, surely?FreddyTheFish: harder tan nuses what planet are you on
DrStrangelove: all this striking culture.....these civil service workers are holding the country to ransomRawk: Yes - but they get such rubbish pay rises year on year
Rawk: they've been offered 2.45%, but inflation is loads higher than that.
Rawk: It's effectively a pay cut - year on year
Jake: Surely this is against Nu Labour's ethos!
DrStrangelove: they get well paid in a job for life with a great pension
Jake: I concur with that as my late parents were Heads!
FreddyTheFish: ye and waht about the lucrative tutoring on the side that they do
Rawk: Undoubtedly as you go up the chain you can get well paid, but the majority of teachers at the middle or bottom of the rung get peanuts, especially if they live near london
Jake: plenty of people don't get ANY pay rises above or below inflation and have to put up with it
DrStrangelove: look if they want to work in the private sector then get a job in the city (on more money), wait for a recession and then wait to get fired
Rawk: So - the easy question - would any of you guys become teachers?
Jake: noot having seen what my parents went thorugh
Rawk: precisely!
Jake: towards the end of their careers anyway
Jake: nothing to do with money
Jake: the kind of children they had to teachRawk: that's a good point - you're coming around to my my way of thinking now. So we have to pay them more to compensate them for this of course!
FreddyTheFish: they get plenty on money for a half a days work but even worse than that what about the standad of teaching they should be paid pro rata on the amount of children that can read and write when they leave school
Rawk: It's a nightmare. My mum's just retired and she found it all quite good fun for the first few years, but over the last 3 years or so the amount of paperwork and general 'rubbish' that they had to do became too much, it wasn't worth the bother so she left.
Jake: Well said Freddy
Jake: I agree with you Rawk, my father was done in by all the paperwork, he loved TEACHING and you simply cannot be a teacher any more
FreddyTheFish: i agree that some of the teachers do a good job but the rest dont know how to talk to kids at their level they r
DrStrangelove: look nobody should work for a unreasonable wage but you should not have the right to strike and cause chaos
Rawk: They spend about half of their time filling in bits of paper, the class sizes are too big, and they always have to aim for the average ability of the classRawk: they have no chance of succeeding
Jake: you mean more chaos than there already is in schools :(
FreddyTheFish: cont.... are pure academics that shouldnt be teachers in the first placeRawk: but that's because the teaching profession cannot attract other types of people - because there's not enough money to attract other types of people!
DrStrangelove: look at the train driver...they strike every year just cause they striked the year before
Jake: But Rawk, they have to change this from WITHIN not strike?Rawk: Well, they could all quit
Rawk: that would sort it out pretty sharpis I'd say
Rawk: You'd see massive pay rises and a huge attraction to the field
FreddyTheFish: ye striking never does anything but piss everybody offRawk: its always the last resort though isn't it?
Jake: are we talking 'dedicated' here aka nursing?
DrStrangelove: eh when was the last time teachers striked?
Jake: no clue
FreddyTheFish: the problem is the same as with the nhs - 'the employer" the government not having a clue about the business at hand
Rawk: well, they can't handle these things well - it should never get to this mexican stand off style negotiations
DrStrangelove: problem is there is less and less dicipline in schools. in my day it was "use the rod and beat the child". teachers had respect
Jake: I thought the Government, their employer, wanted them all to vote Labour!
FreddyTheFish: let the experts eg the medical staff and in this case the teachers decide how best t o run the whole show
Jake: respect is a word you do not hear in schools now
Rawk: They will do anyway, Labour likes unions, so they'll always have the backing of large groups lilke nurses and teachers
DrStrangelove: right on the money Freddy. Government should leave the teachers to run the show
FreddyTheFish: ye thats it exactly the government have taken all powers away leaving the no respect situation
Jake: indded they have
Rawk: Even portugal pay more than the UK
Jake: the 'nanny' State does nothing to help either the children or the teachers, the teachers are hidebound by nanny state rules, and cannot command respect
FreddyTheFish: who said anything about a union i meet fire the employer and privatise the schools and it has already been proven
Jake: that the old system of Grammar, Tech and Sec Modern WORKED
FreddyTheFish: ye thats the way
DrStrangelove: its labour again. one size for all.......take ireland for example. shools are fantastic. WHY
Jake: but we are not premitted as it 'discriminates' what tosh!!!
DrStrangelove: because all schools are subbed by the gov, not 100%, but a sub
DrStrangelove: parents play a small sum for all private schools....maybe £250 term
Jake: the NHS is subbed by the govn. too and look what a stinking mess that is in!
Rawk: true
FreddyTheFish: there have been some examples of private investors taking over schools and running them very effeciently
Rawk: The NHS could really do with going private
Jake: I agree with both of you
Rawk: teaching would be great if it went private, but long term it would end free education for all
FreddyTheFish: rawk that was last night keep up
Rawk: hah!
Jake: but we need to take the reins and give them back to the teachers,
Jake: stop all this political correctness, and 'diversity' training what rubbish all tha tis
DrStrangelove: ok but i real terms if there was more choice, better school facilities etc and every parent paid a nominal sum per annum that would be a fairer system
Rawk: I think they need to be able to punish the kids first. Proper punishment like when I was at school
Jake: yes, provided the truly poor were funded, not the single white female mothers of 15, but the truly poor
FreddyTheFish: no one said anything about not having some free education but really we are becoming anation of benefits non working lazy never earning a living csociety
Jake: True